LiveJournal: When the LJ abuse prevention team become the abusers, who will protect the LJ users?

Saturday, June 03, 2006

When is a nipple not a nipple?

mercy_rain writes:
Have you seen Denise Paolucci's default icon?
Profile.

According to LJA-Erin in the news community Denise's icon is just fine because it's covered with material, and not nude.

"The very definition of nude implies that a portion of the body is not covered up. [info]rahaeli's default icon that you link to clearly shows a sports bra.

"How can something be nude and in clothing at the same time? "

Well, according to Denise herself, it's NOT okay, which really is logical, because the whole point of wet t-shirt contests is that you can see a lot through the right kind of fabric.

In an email to me, wherein I asked some specific questions about exactly what is considered "nudity," she told me, "If the nipple or areola are visible -- such as in userpics where the breasts are covered but the fabric is sheer enough -- then it is also not permitted for use as a default userpic."

That is a DIRECT QUOTE from Denise Paolucci. Pity the rules don't apply to important people like her.

For those who can't see the nipple, I've added an arrow.



Breastfeeding default icons showing less nipple than this have been ruled inappropriate. Denise herself said that if the fabric is sheer enough to show any nipple the picture is not permitted for use as a default userpic. Except hers. It's just a few darkened pixels after all!

Abuse team members still can't agree on what the rules are, so it's not a surprise that other LJ support volunteers don't know how things work. One supporter said that instead of contacting LJ Abuse to complain about their ruling that breastfeeding icons showing areola were inappropriate as default userpics, people should have posted disputing the policy at the Suggestions community. Most users didn't realize that community covered policy disputes, but one user took up the suggestion and posted there.

The post was rejected by the moderator on the grounds that "The FAQ reflects current policy. If you have concerns about an Abuse policy,please contact the Abuse Team following the instructions in http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=105"

No wonder it takes 1500 emails to get their attention!

LJA-shamanix thinks some of us are fanning the flames because we have an axe to grind. I think my axe is sharp enough without any more grinding thanks!

LJA-shamanix also doesn't want people to have any help figuring out they can email him by putting his username in front of @livejournal.com (No one of course has answered Christine's question).

The Petition has over 500 signatures.

Tags: , , , ,

78 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they only had the decency of, at least, shut the fuck up, but no... there that's annoying, stupid Erin, who made that disgrace of a poll a few days ago, and now goes around defending Denise's icon, which is obviously in violation of their beloved rules.

The ToS should read that 'no icon showing female nipple is allowed as default unless Denise P. is using it'.

My paid account expires in a few months,after that they won't get another cent from me again.

3:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You should post that quote with the pic on the LJ NEWS thread.

3:45 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OH LOOK, if you disagree with the abuse team about anything your opinion is never worth listening to about anything again.

3:46 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

another good article

3:48 PM

 
Blogger wyldebtrfly said...

"How can something be nude and in clothing at the same time? "
Indeed,erin, Indeed...and yet this icon was suspended,apparently in the tiny sliver of skin you can see areola (i can't find it,but erin says it's there and we all know Erin knows all!!)
except,of course,what the faq said in the first place
but that's ok,it's not like it was her job to know or anything....

3:57 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. If you really think that icon shows nipple, you need to get to a strip club ASAP. You'd have to be a horny fourteen-year-old watching a movie and pausing every time you think you see tit to get all worked up about that.

To me, it's pretty clearly just the texture used to fill in the fabric in the illustration. You could stick about thirteen more arrows on it pointing to the other indistinct areas of vaguely darker coloration.

But then again, I don't have an agenda which compels me to see tit where there's no tit.

5:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon (comment # 6)

there is as much nipple in that icon as there is in the one comment 5 pointed out: http://www.promom.org/gallery/albums/banned_icons/9047259_G.thumb.jpeg
which was suspended.
It's a hypocritical rule,that only seems to apply to users.

5:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You'd have to be a horny fourteen-year-old watching a movie and pausing every time you think you see tit to get all worked up about that.

That's pretty much what I'd say to LJ abuse about the amount of nipple shown in some of the icons they've said were against the rule.

Someone got told they couldn't use a CARTOON MERMAID with 2 black dots on it!

6:34 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy shit I can't believe shamanix is so dumb he says right there he discounts someone's opinion because they've posted opinions about LJA on abuse_lj_abuse. That is all the proof you need that what people complain about with LJA is true, they can't be professional and pick and choose what they listen to according to their biases against people.

6:50 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL I bet it drives them nuts that realcdaae stays so polite, it would look much better for them if she got baited into calling them the arrogant assholes they are.

7:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Livejournal is no longer Brad's hobby. It's a million dollar business and those charged with being judge and jury over paying customers should be someone who has had a least one job, preferably as a representative of abuse.

A handful of college kids with no life, so they "volunteer" in support of a conglomerate that has been positioning themselves to compete against the big boys shouldn't be in position of power. They have no real world experience.

And, I'm going to leave them with a rhetorical; If Microsoft, Yahoo! or the New York Times were to buy SixApart tomorrow; Would they still volunteer?

3:25 AM

 
Blogger LJAB said...

Someone got told they couldn't use a CARTOON MERMAID with 2 black dots on it!

Do you have a link to that?

1:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, most of the online support presence for companies like Microsoft are run by volunteers. It only seems to become a problem when someone's looking for a convenient ad-hominem to make their argument read like less of a tantrum.

Off you go, now. It's almost time to delete your LJ.

6:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Microsoft support volunteers? LMAO.

You sound bitter, are you on the abuse team?

7:24 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://community.livejournal.com/nipplegatesnark/profile

7:26 PM

 
Anonymous L said...

lol, they have a whole 33 members, and half of them are probably trolls

7:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah. Of course that stupid community will probably die once this whole thing is a memory. Fucking negative cunts.

8:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Microsoft support volunteers? LMAO.

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/

You're welcome.

You sound bitter, are you on the abuse team?

You sound paranoid, you must be aware of what you're not accomplishing.

9:22 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You sound bitter, are you on the abuse team?

You sound paranoid, you must be aware of what you're not accomplishing.


Thanks. You just answered that person's question. And what about you? How does it feel to be on a losing team? Cuntface.

9:29 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks. You just answered that person's question. And what about you? How does it feel to be on a losing team?

Last time I checked, you're not getting your way and you're all going away. How, exactly, are we "losing"?

Cuntface.

Aw. I love you, too!

9:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last time I checked, you're not getting your way and you're all going away. How, exactly, are we "losing"?

Yes, we are going away. Away from your stupid site! It's called "losing customers". THAT is how you are losing. There has been a noticable drop in usage since this thing started. Your site is getting VERY negative publicity. THAT, once again, is how you are losing.

And we WILL get our way. You think we're done? You ain't seen nothing yet! ;)

9:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There has been a noticable drop in usage since this thing started.

Your three friends saying OMG I AM NEVAR UPDATING AGAIN! is not "noticeable".

Your site is getting VERY negative publicity.

It's not "my" site. And the only publicity it's received has been either echo-chamber dairy queens shrieking about the injustice of it all, and outright mocking and derision from everyone else.

THAT, once again, is how you are losing.

Nope. Sorry, not a loss. Problem users are self-identifying and leaving, or getting suspended. You can't lose that which is being tossed in the trash.

And we WILL get our way.

Just because you scream loud at the McDonald's manager doesn't mean it will work here. And it hasn't.

You think we're done?

You couldn't even get a sidebar in a weekly shopper about tomorrow's fauxtest, so yes.

You ain't seen nothing yet!

How can we miss you if you won't leave?

9:45 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There has been a noticable drop in usage since this thing started.

Your three friends saying OMG I AM NEVAR UPDATING AGAIN! is not "noticeable".

Your site is getting VERY negative publicity.

It's not "my" site. And the only publicity it's received has been either echo-chamber dairy queens shrieking about the injustice of it all, and outright mocking and derision from everyone else.

THAT, once again, is how you are losing.

Nope. Sorry, not a loss. Problem users are self-identifying and leaving, or getting suspended. You can't lose that which is being tossed in the trash.

And we WILL get our way.

Just because you scream loud at the McDonald's manager doesn't mean it will work here. And it hasn't.

You think we're done?

You couldn't even get a sidebar in a weekly shopper about tomorrow's fauxtest, so yes.

You ain't seen nothing yet!

How can we miss you if you won't leave?


Wow. Is that the best you could do? Rubbish, all of it. Just like LiveJournal.

Last time I checked your News page, there was more than three people angry and objecting to all this. So you sound like an idiot. And you have no idea as to who I am, so shut your face about me and my "three friends", as you put it.

9:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You ain't seen nothing yet!

How can we miss you if you won't leave?


Wow. Retarded much?

9:50 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. Is that the best you could do? Rubbish, all of it.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do realize that you're unable to compose a coherent response. Why'd you ask?

Just like LiveJournal.

Golly, I see your point. Better hurry up and delete your journal, then!

Last time I checked your News page, there was more than three people angry and objecting to all this.

And let's see how many of them go away and never come back, or simply post on Wednesday with "Oh, wow I forgot all about it because actually having a life got in the way."

So you sound like an idiot.

...said the person posting proclamations it can't substantiate.

And you have no idea as to who I am, so shut your face about me and my "three friends", as you put it.

Okay, fine. You're right. Five friends.

9:54 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, I have to turn in for the night and I've got a ton of things to do tomorrow. That should leave you with 18-plus hours to come up with some witty retorts.

Just remember, there's always a place for you at GreatestJournal!

10:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, as a matter of fact I do realize that you're unable to compose a coherent response. Why'd you ask?

Another idiotic response. Not surprising. Look who's writing the response. LJ Abuse volunteer = losers.

Golly, I see your point. Better hurry up and delete your journal, then!

How about letting us know who you are, then? I'm sure LiveJournal users would love to find out that one of the Abuse team is being so rude toward thier users, saying people need to be "tossed in the trash". Even if those users are on the opposing team, customers are customers, so they therefore do not deserve your shit talking.

Last time I checked your News page, there was more than three people angry and objecting to all this.

And let's see how many of them go away and never come back..."


And that would mean a loss of customers. Dumbass.

So you sound like an idiot.

...said the person posting proclamations it can't substantiate.


Wow. Such wit!

And you have no idea as to who I am, so shut your face about me and my "three friends", as you put it.

Okay, fine. You're right. Five friends


That's five more friends than you'll ever have.

10:04 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Microsoft MVPs are people who get extra cred for answering questions in a newsgroup. Anybody is allowed to answer questions, not just the MVPs and I guarantee that when I call MS Support, I'm getting a paid employee.

10:44 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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11:16 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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11:18 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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11:23 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guarantee that when I call MS Support, I'm getting a paid employee.

EXACTLY.

6:07 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh look, cf_hardcore members are posting.

New Harry Potter book soon, better get your costume and get ready to FREAK THE HELL OUT!!!!

11:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panda, you are right on most of your points in your last comment. If that person you quoted is working for the Abuse Team, that's so sad.

The only thing is that I'm wondering what good it would do to send those comments to Six Apart or whatever. They are anonymous, which is unfortunate, because Six Apart can turn around and say they have no proof as to who made those comments. Just saying.

1:16 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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1:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These users that you called "trash" are protesting against the abuse team and thier (your) actions. They certainly are not people to be "tossed in the trash", and I am highly insulted that you would refer to users this way!

Well, I considered "whiny little drama queens who'll have spent their entire PR load and come back on Wednesday finding everything hasn't changed even when they screamed their loudest" but "trash" seemed to help the flow a little more.

In closing, I will have you know that I have sent your comments to your higher ups.

OH NOES! I'm shaking in my boots! From laughing so damn hard.

5:59 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about letting us know who you are, then? I'm sure LiveJournal users would love to find out that one of the Abuse team is being so rude toward thier users, saying people need to be "tossed in the trash".

I'm sure they would... except that they don't care, do they? You didn't get your way. You're not going to get your way, and the best you'll be able to do is shriek insults at an anonymous poster on an unrelated blog. :)

C'mon, now. Curl up your little fists and rage some more!

6:04 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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6:22 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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6:24 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You keep right on laughing.

I don't laugh here. That's what the posts in boob_nazis discussing calling the ACLU to determine the rights of image files are for.

One day this will all catch up to you. It's called karma.

Interesting. Or this could be karma catching up with you right now.

How can you be so sure that things won't change?

;-)

Also, being labelled anything by a group I actually want to loathe me so much that the comments on this blog are specifically mentioned as a reason for never returning to LJ... it's not exactly a traumatic thing, y'know?

6:32 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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6:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm still waiting to find out who you are, coward.

OH NOES! Someone on the Internet called me a name! I shall weep into my coffee! But first I'll suspend another 2 dozen accounts before they can be deleted, just because it'll really piss off a few more dairy queens by keeping them from having the last word.

Um, what?

Most people study for years to affect that level of obtuse. Congratulations!

So, how'd that nurse-in go? :)

7:12 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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7:21 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous comments tend to not to be taken seriously.

...said "panda cookie."

Oh, and if you delete journals just to beat people to the punch, that once again shows how unprofessional you Abuse type folk are.

I agree. We're terrible! You should show us how awful we are by deleting your journal and never coming back. I bet we'll be sorry then!

'm waiting for you to come back with some witty retort, like "Oh, we're not losing! Blah blah."

Why should I sustain the effort, when a mere reply is enough to provoke you into shrieking and flinging feces around the comment page? I have no reason to throw a tantrum when every reply you make is an effective measure of your group's combined effort. ^_^

Go ahead. Lay some more of that crap on me. You sure are getting humorous, coward!

And you're still not getting what you want.

7:29 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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7:36 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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7:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, a social life beckons. Panda's probably writing her NUH-UH! I KNO U R BUT WUT M I?? retort right now, anyway. Since she needs to have the last word, I'll be the conceited asshole that concedes it.

After all, I've got everything else going my way. ;-)

7:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freetards pretending to belong to the abuse team....yea we should all believe that. :snort:

You MIGHT be more believable (just very slightly) if you weren't using freetard language. That just gives you away big time. Thanks for the laugh though!

7:46 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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7:46 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least I don't have to prove I have a life

Of that we are ALL in agreement.

7:51 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Leaving where? I'm at 6A waiting for the nurse-in to start!

7:53 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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7:53 PM

 
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7:58 PM

 
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7:58 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm me! And I'm here waiting for the nurse-in to start. They said there would be cake. And punch!

7:59 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess you really don't have much of a life, do you? ;)

I am not amused, btw. My child is my life and leaves very little time for doing anything other than NAK. How dare you make fun of me for being a SAHM!

8:01 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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8:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And I'm here waiting for you to suspend me!

But I gave up the leather sling when DH and I converted. Sorry. :-(

8:03 PM

 
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8:04 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol, okay. I don't speak Internet!

I'm sitting here in front of Six Apart waiting for the nurse-in to start. Where is everyone??

8:05 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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8:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're getting lamer all the time

See? I *told* DH this. But he said our place was just too small, and that we could either have a playpen, OR a living room and blissful eternity together. I don't understand why we couldn't have both, but oh well.

You gotta make choices sometimes.

8:07 PM

 
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8:07 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol, whatever. I don't speak Internet! You should really write to them if you want it removed, I guess.

Where IS everyone? I thought this was supposed to be a huge protest, like we had for the Iraq war.

8:09 PM

 
Blogger panda cookie said...

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8:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But I've been here since noon, and no one showed up. I thought maybe it was midnight, or maybe I got the day wrong.

So it was supposed to happen today? Where is everyone? I don't understand. This is San Francisco. You can get together a dozen people to protest a passing truck! Why weren't they here?

Also, you seem to have some anger issues. I understand beliefnet has some soothing meditations you could use. You might want to check them out.

8:16 PM

 
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8:27 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol, ok! I don't speak Internet. I'm sorry that something is frustrating you. :-(

I'm just asking where everyone was. I took the time to show up and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask.

8:28 PM

 
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8:42 PM

 
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8:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

panda cookie said...
I have written about all this and my stance on the matter in my own blog. I refuse to use my LiveJournal account until something is done about the Abuse team and how things are run.


I hope this is true. And I hope nothing is ever done about the Abuse team.

10:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I hope this is true. And I hope nothing is ever done about the Abuse team."

That comment was pretty fucking stupid. So you want nothing done about the Abuse Team because you dislike Panda? That is SO STUPID! Were you dropped on your head as a child?

12:19 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

I hope this is true. And I hope nothing is ever done about the Abuse team.


Was that supposed to be an insult? LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!

12:37 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Was that supposed to be an insult? LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!"

LMAO YEAH NO KIDDING!

12:43 AM

 
Anonymous Sally said...

Oh grow up all of you!

5:08 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh grow up all of you!

The scary part is that most of these people (on both sides) have children... children that are most likely being raised to behave just like their parents.

I fear for the future of the planet.

5:32 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I fear for the future of the planet.

Because of the comments in this post? Please. I find it fun. It's a debate. And if you think thats bad, look at the news section over at LiveJournal.

9:25 AM

 
Blogger LJAB said...

I can't say I see much actual debate happening.

5:23 PM

 

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