LiveJournal: When the LJ abuse prevention team become the abusers, who will protect the LJ users?

Thursday, May 25, 2006

Responses to Six Apart's Response

To provide you with an idea how much publicity the issue is getting, here are the numbers of unique users who've visited this blog each day from my logs since Sunday.

Wednesday May 24, 2006 962
Tuesday May 23, 2006 643
Monday May 22, 2006 423
Sunday May 21, 2006 104

The petition organizers report that over 1500 emails were sent through their page.

I'm going to quote from some comments to Doug's post I think Six Apart should listen to.

becke1084 : If LJA screws up, there needs to be a higher appeal option; this "we're right, you're wrong, the end, you're suspended" approach from LJA is totally inappropriate, especially for paying customers such as myself... In close, I am a five-year member of the LJ community, and I have been a paid member for nearly 4 years. I am not yet a mother, and I have never breastfed a child, but I am very much an advocate. I applaud all of the women who have given their time and their voice to this issue, and I can only hope that LJ and Six Apart will do what is RIGHT and put this issue to bed before the end of the week."

dreamalynn : "I don't see sensitivity here, I see pandering. And since your time is supposed to be spent dealing with the customers of your company and meeting their needs, I'm not going to thank you for doing your job for which I'm sure you're well paid. And by no means will I thank you for a response that does nothing new to address our concerns at all. There is nothing here but the same stack of non-answers, the same put offs, the same offensive analogies, the same mischaracterizations of our argument, the same suggestions that there are "grey areas" in need of clarity and the same promises of discussion and progress that we've been seeing all week."

thegoddesschaos: "this is not an apology- nothing has changed. you are attempting to placate us and drag this out so that we give up and go away. i am not buying into it. THOUSANDS others are not buying into it either."

tamago23: "First, let me say that was a lovely apology... for you. It did an excellent job of making it appear that the problem was our perceptions, not the actual behavior of the LJ Abuse Team and Denise P. There is a difference between "appeared to show" and "showed". The former makes it the fault of the person complaining - we weren't really at fault, you just perceived it that way! The latter admits wrongdoing on the part of the entity being complained against. Is there really any way you can review the letters sent by LJ Abuse and then honestly say that it was just our perception that they were insulting and hostile? ... Don't get me wrong, I am grateful that we're being acknowledged by Six Apart. I'm just currently not getting the sense that we're being *listened* to."

Elsewhere there is speculation that Six Apart may be toughening up on their TOS because they're now selling advertising.

dstroy: "There was an article in Wall Street Journal recently talking about how advertisers are super adamant about having nudie-bits associated with their ads, so places like Six-Apart, Myspace, Flikr, and other traditional Second Generation web communities are suddenly finding themselves hiring huge teams of content censors to eliminate stuff that might scare away their money source."

From the abuse team side, Shamanix steps in with a classic response to the contradiction I referred to.

Shamanix: "What people report and what actually happen are sometimes two very different things, as I'm sure you're well aware. As you've quoted from my comment to [info]abuse_lj_abuse, I feel I should point out that all abuse cases are confidential and that team members cannot comment on specific cases."

In other words, the user was lying but we can't tell you the truth because it's confidential... even though the user was the one who brought it up and says she'd like to know "what violation of the US law they were investigating."

Some LiveJournal users have said they think the whole system of using volunteers is flawed.

Commenting here, cdaae13 says "But really, the fish rots from the head. Getting a new head of abuse won't solve *every* problem, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction. An even better step would be to no longer use volunteers... Paid employees would be much more accountable for their actions. LJ/6A is earning more money with advertisements. Use that money to fix the existing problems with the service."

Panda Cookie: "I used to be a Support volunteer for LJ. I didn't care for the way they handled thier customers, so I left. I've NEVER thought highly of the Abuse team, even when I was a Support volunteer. This whole thing with breastfeeding just makes me dislike them more."

HidingMyself: "My problem with abuse is that they use volunteers, so there can't be any consistency... SA really should take some of the money that has been flowing into their coffers to professionalize abuse. It'd help clear up a lot of the problems and confusion."

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's sad it takes fear of bad publicity to get a company to listen and its even more sad when they just pretend to be listening. how stupid do they think we are?

10:35 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cripes that's a long thread. Don't mess with the momas!

11:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

more from 6A's Doug

I hope the ladies really have access to massive media, it's quite clear that 6A doesn't give a f*ck.

1:05 PM

Blogger Christine said...

Oh, that's just great.

Doug says But to be clear, there is only one issue here and it is the limited restriction LiveJournal places on the default userpic.

No, Doug, there is not only one issue here. There are a ton of issues, and people have discussed them and explained them, and Six Apart preferring to ignore them doesn't mean they're not there.

What I was going to post on the community, only they've set it friends only:

So, Six Apart officially does not intend to listen to its customers about any of the other issues regarding LiveJournal's abuse team? Do we need thousands of emails on each specific instance of policy, or poor behaviour from the abuse team, before Six Apart will look at them?

2:39 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm going to put this over here because I'm still HidingMyself;

If it were me and if were organizing things, I'd strongly consider bombarding them with protest emails over the holiday weekend. Maybe it's just me, but I think they should be reminded of the users stance and because they've really brought nothing to the table, the unilateral ceasefire should countdown to an expiration, unless they agree not to suspend people until the question is settled.

In the most recent comment linked from the boob_nazi community, Doug Bryan wished everyone a nice weekend, so he obviously isn't going to be thinking about it. As far as he is concerned, the situation is resolved.

3:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boob_Nazis has gone to member only posting and it's moderated membership I think, so now a lot of people who feel strongly about this can't post there.

This is not an issue that just affects the boob nazis, this is a site wide company problem and LJ needs to hear that clear and loud.

5:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Boob_Nazis has gone to member only posting and it's moderated membership I think, so now a lot of people who feel strongly about this can't post there."

Why did they do that? I just don't understand people's attitudes, first they're ready to fight over this and then they give up?
Now this discussion has been kicked out of LJ space, right?
6A needed very little effort to stop them.

5:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh that sucks, I bet they got nervous when people like Jameth and Hardvice joined in the thread.

I wonder if there was any pressure from 6A to keep out people who aren't all about the breastfeeding... like you.

6:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another email addy for you:

I got this one from an out-of-office reply from kevin.

6:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for taking action!! Please e-mail me to discuss upcoming activities.

~Bean (LJ breastfeeding community moderator)

8:17 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a member of the boob_nazi community. I've been keeping up with the coverage here and I understand why people are curious about it being locked down. I just wanted to say that was simply about the community and individuals getting alot of harassment. I'm not a moderator, just an individual, so I'm just speaking for me, I just wanted to say that I really, really appreciate the support from everyone.

8:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just an quick update, non-member posting has been enabled, again, on boob nazis. It was just announced a bit ago.

4:48 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just an quick update, non-member posting has been enabled, again, on boob nazis. It was just announced a bit ago.

4:48 PM


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